INQUIRER Volume 3, Issue 4, April,
2000 A Thumbs Up Publication
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LISH 2000 (All articles in this newsletter may be reprinted by
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1) The Papal Apology
2) Post Modernist Witnesses
3) Letters to the Editor
4) A Memorial in Alabama
5) Is Pat Robertson an Evil Influence?
6) Churches or Business
7) Bob Jones University: The Fine Print
8) Kentucky Governor Vetoes Act to Allow Discrimination Against Atheists
9) Book Discussion Club Being FormedThe Papal Apology Gerry D
The world waited in great anticipation for the latest Papal apology for one or another misdeed by Catholics, the Church, Christians, or even a Pope. The world did not quite get what it wanted or hoped for however. In fact, there was no apology to any person, or for any misdeed or mistake specifically by the Church, Church doctrine, or a Pope.
Past Popes usually have not even tried to be bridge builders - Pope Pius X said to Theodor Herzl, founder of Zionism, that "The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people." Pope Pius XII has been characterized as "Hitler's Pope," who wittingly did not protest the treatment of Jews leading up to and during WWII. This is not to mention the doctrine of "Deicide," instituted by a Pope, which inferred that the Jews as a people were responsible for the death of Jesus. This doctrine was intact until only about 40 years ago. What could be a worse idea than to teach to the young and impressionable that a race, Jews, killed God, and were still held responsibility for that act? It has been argued that this teaching and the hatred that inevitably would follow led to the atmosphere that resulted in the holocaust.
In light of the failure of past Popes, it would be safe to say that this Pope has made the best effort to correct past mistakes by the Church in regard to the treatment of Jewish persons. Yet the statement made by the Pontiff never mentioned the holocaust or Jews specifically: They were referred to as "the people of Israel." The word holocaust is absent.
What does such an apology offer to the Jewish people? Technically, forgiveness was being asked of God for "Christians," as if only Catholics were Christians, or as if other Christians were equally culpable for the "sins" of the Roman Catholic Church. Further, even if the apology were directed properly and without arrogance, what good is an apology if nothing changes? According to a report in an Israeli newspaper, the Vatican had requested that the Jewish Star - the Magen David - be removed from a mobile intensive care unit that was to escort the Pope in his visit to Israel in March! This, in the immediate aftermath of the Papal "apology."
The apology is empty if a new way of behavior is not attached. Does the Pope still believe all Jews are unsaved and doomed to everlasting torment - and deserve it? Can the Pope honestly expect Catholics and other Christians to favorably view a people who they are taught deserve eternal punishment? Are all persons really saved only by grace through faith in Jesus? If this is not the case, then is it not now necessary to believe in Jesus as "savior" in order to avoid everlasting torment?
The Israeli Chief Rabbi said the oblique reference to the holocaust "disappointing" and that the absence of any mention of Pope Pius XII makes it "impossible to correct a crime of the past."
Not only Jews have suffered from Catholic Church actions or teachings. Women have always had fewer rights than men in the Catholic Church, such as the right to be Priests, or the right to control their own bodies concerning pregnancy, and, of course, the apology notwithstanding, there is no change in Vatican attitudes in these cases.
Also, leaders of the international Pagan community sent a letter to Pope John Paul II calling for the inclusion of Pagans in the Vatican's Millennial Apology for the Inquisition.
Pagan leaders pointed to the two-millennia history of Roman Catholic oppression of Pagan (i.e. indigenous nature-worshipping) peoples, including forced conversions, desecration of sacred sites, perpetration of false propaganda concerning Pagan beliefs and practices, and collaboration with the state in persecuting and executing Pagans during the Inquisition. It is doubtful if they were satisfied by this Papal apology. The Church commissioned a report titled "Memory and Reconciliation: the Church and the faults of the past" which formed the basis for the Pope's public apology and is the most complete formal document of its type by the Vatican. It contains the details of the "apology." In it the following statement was contained: "The Shoah was certainly the result of the pagan ideology that was Nazism...."
(For more information, including translations of the letter, complete list of signatories, documentation of the Church's historical persecution of Pagans, regional contacts, relevant news clippings, and frequently-asked questions, see: http://www2.bc.edu/~lafond/Papal_Letters.htm and http://www.circlesanctuary.org/liberty.)
Consider the Pope's statement that vaguely refers to the Inquisition: "We ask forgiveness for the divisions among Christians, for the use of violence that some Christians used in the service of the truth, and for the behavior of diffidence and hostility sometimes used toward followers of other religions."
Wait a minute! "Christians?" This must be interesting to hear from the point of view of formerly persecuted non-Catholic Christian groups who are being apologized for (as Christians) by the leader of the institution that once persecuted them! Couldn't they apologize on their own behalf for their own excesses? Does the Pope presume he represents all Christians? Has he conferred with Bob Jones III on this?
Service of the Truth? Again, there is no admission that the Inquisition was in error, only that they were a little zealous! The Pope, for all the buildup of this "apology," never admits, as far as I can tell (please correct us dear readers, if we are wrong) to any wrong doing specifically on the part of Popes, the Roman Catholic Church, current Catholics, or Church doctrine! Should it matter to a rational and objective observer that Church doctrine prevents this sort of mea culpa?
Finally, in light of the apologetic mode of the Church, what is the current attitude toward non-believers, the non-religious, atheists and the secularly humanist? In part, the Memory and Reconciliation report reads, "Vatican II takes the same approach as Paul VI. For the faults committed against unity, the Council Fathers state, 'we ask pardon of God and of the separated brethren, as we forgive those who trespass against us.'" In addition to faults against unity, it noted other negative episodes from the past for which Christians bore some responsibility. Thus, "it deplores certain attitudes that sometimes are found among Christians" and which led people to think that faith and science are mutually opposed. Likewise, it considers the fact that in "the genesis of atheism," Christians may have had "some responsibility" insofar as through their negligence they "conceal rather than reveal the authentic face of God and religion."
The report also states that "Connected to the eclipse of God, one encounters then a series of negative phenomena, like religious indifference, the widespread lack of a transcendent sense of human life, a climate of secularism and ethical relativism, the denial of the right to life of the unborn child sanctioned in pro-abortion legislation, and a great indifference to the cry of the poor in entire sectors of the human family. The uncomfortable question to consider is in what measure believers are themselves responsible for these forms of atheism, whether theoretical or practical... For, taken as a whole, atheism is not something original, but rather stems from a variety of causes, including a critical reaction against religious belief and in some places against the Christian religion in particular. Hence believers can have more than a little to do with the genesis of atheism."
Yes, in the basis for the "apology," the Vatican commission saw fit to offhandedly refer to atheism, or lack of religious belief, as something to apologize for, and does not see fit to apologize to atheists, primarily for burnings at the stake, persecutions and general fostering of hatred. Indeed the heading of the Chapter was "Responsibility for the Evils of Today" all of which are seen somehow as "forms of atheism."
Many groups were disappointed by the thin scope of the Papal statement. How amazing, however, that in a Commission to examine the faults of the Church, they perpetuate more faults: The equating of Nazism with Paganism and atheism with evil! The Roman Catholic Church, though headed by a Pope with good intentions perhaps, is beyond repair. [TOC]
Post Modern Witnesses Gerry D
It was a beautiful Saturday morning at home. No work, bright sun, the kids playing Nintendo in the living room. Suddenly my son shouts out, looking out the window. Son: "Someone's coming up the steps to the house."
Me: "Drat! It's those Postmodernist Witnesses again!"
Daughter: "What's Postmodernist dad?"
Me: "Postmodernists believe there is no distinction between fact and fiction. For them, there is no necessary relationship between words and things. Thus a discussion which is supposed to be describing reality has no greater relationship to its referent than fiction. They believe that history and fictional narratives are substitutes for reality rather than good copies and bad copies of it. Understand?"
Son & Daughter: "No dad."
Me: "Neither do I. Let's see what they have to say this week." I open the door.
Me: "Good morning."
PM Witness 1: "Good is a term that has no objective meaning relative to the condition of an epoch which may exist dependent upon the position of your heliocentric myth in the historical universe that your culture has created."
Me: "Is it not a good day for you?"
PM Witness 2: "Like others before, the new 'wars of religion' unleash themselves over the human earth (which is not the world) and struggle even today to control the sky with fingers and eyes: digital systems and virtually immediate panoptical visualization, air space, telecommunications satellites, information highways, concentration of capitalistic-mediatic power - in three words, digital culture, jet and TV without which there could be no religious manifestation today, for example no voyage or discourse of the Pope, no widespread fascination of Jewish, Christian or Moslem cults, be they 'fundamentalist' or not. Given this, the cyberspatialized or cyberspaced wars of religion have no stakes other than this determination of the 'world', of 'history', of the 'day' and of the 'present', to quote Derrida."
Me: "Huh?"
PM Witness 1: "In other words, what is true and good for you defines itself without foundation or structure."
Me: "Oh. Er, what can I do for you, if you are you really you for you and what I can do is really doing something, for you that is?"
PM Witness 1: "One could say the icons of our time: the organization, conception (generative forces, structures and capital) as well as the audiovisual representation of cultic or socio-religious phenomenal have become immediately transmitted, massively 'marketed' and available on CD-ROM; everything down to the signs of presence in the mystery of the Eucharist is 'cederomised'; over airborn pilgrimages to Mecca; over so many miracles transmitted live (most frequently, healings, which is to say, returns to the unscathed, heilig, holy, indemnifications) followed by commercials."
Me: "Uh, yes...? Maybe you could say that..."
PM Witness 2: "So remarkably adapted to the scale and the evolutions of global demography, so well adjusted to the technoscientific, economic and mediatic powers of our time, the power of all these phenomena to bear witness finds itself formidably intensified, at the same time as it is collected in a digitalized space by supersonic airplanes or by audiovisual antenna. The ether of religion will always have been hospitable to a certain spectral virtuality."
Son: "What did he say dad?"
Me: "I'm sure he said something. What do you think he said? If you think what he said is what he said, then that is what he said, I think."
PM Witness 1: "The declared stakes already appear to be without limit: what is the 'world', the 'day', the 'present' (hence, all of history, the earth, the humanity of man, the rights of man, the rights of man and of woman, the political and cultural organization of society, the difference between man, god and animal, the phenomenality of the day, the value or 'indemnity' of life, the right to life, the treatment of death, etc.)?"
Me: "You are having a bad day, aren't you?"
PM Witness 2: "Today, like the sublimity of the starry heavens at the bottom of our hearts, the 'cyberspaced' religion also entails the accelerated and hypercapitalized relaunching of founding specters. On CD-ROM, heavenly trajectories of satellites, Jet, TV, Email or Internet networks. Actually or virtually universalizable, ultra-internationalizable, incarnated by new 'corporations' that are increasingly independent of the powers of states (democratic or not, it makes little difference at bottom, all of that has to be reconsidered, like the 'globalatinity' of international law in its current state, which is to say, on the threshold of a process of accelerated and unpredictable transformation)."
The Postmodernist Witnesses turn and leave.
Daughter: "I didn't understand what they were saying."
Me: "At least they didn't want to kick my ass."
Daughter: "What do you mean?"
Me: "Never mind. Let's clean up the house."
Son: "Cleaning the house is only relevant according to the mythical constructs of appropriate human behavior and the theories of gravity and mass as per the Eurocentric traditions of science, religion and logic. I think not dad."
Me: "Is "being grounded" real for you son?"
Son: "Where do we start dad?"
(The end.)
For more information about Jacques Derrida and post modernism, you can start with the sources quoted in the above: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/9095/postmodernism.html or http://www.hydra.umn.edu/derrida/foi2.html [TOC]
Letters to the Editor
1/26/00 The enclosed is my personal definition of humanism resulting from months of conversations with (LISH member) Bob K.
My use of rational rather than secular is based on a belief that "secular" has a negative, confrontational connotation and "rational" does not. It is my feeling that the secular is an unnecessary "chip-on-the-shoulder," too often expressed by contempt for religious believers, so inferior to "us." Rational Humanism, a philosophy which:1) Recognizes people as highly developed natural creatures with the ability to reason
2) Acknowledges evolution as a continuing natural process based, above all, on the instinct for self-preservation
3) Believes that human reason can and should override raw, "survival-of-the-fittest" with moral, ethical conduct
4) Believes that such moral conduct will result in a continually improving future for all
5) Believes that compassion and affection provide meaning to human existence
6) Believes that freedom and democracy are necessary prerequisites to a well-ordered, compassionate society
7) Accepts without fear or self deception, the inevitability of death and the non-existence of individual immortality
8) Recognizes that progeny are the sole means of continuity
9) Sees neither evidence of, nor need for, the existence of an ultimate creator
10) Believes that these ideas promote peace and plenty, that absent them, and given nuclear power, global well being is seriously damaged and life itself threatened with extinction Lee D., Glen Cove, NYResponse: Thanks for the efforts of putting the above together. Note that the term "secular" is designed to be neutral regarding theism - it is neither atheistic nor theistic in meaning. It simply implies that humanism of this type is not handed down from a deity, but does not preclude the existence of a deity. G.D
3/14/00 BARNEY THE DINOSAUR:
1) Start with the given: CUTE PURPLE DINOSAUR.
2) Change all U's to V's (which is proper Latin anyway): CVTE PVRPLE DINOSAVR.
3) Extract all Roman Numerals: C V V L D I V
4) Convert into Arabic values: 100 5 5 50 500 1 5.
5) Add all the numbers: 666. Thus, Barney is Satan. I knew it, the fat bastard. Ray via Internet.Response: Got a lot of time on your hands, eh, Ray? Thanks for the alert however; I suggest you contact Jerry Falwell immediately. G.D.
3/11/00 I'm one of your LISH online subscribers, and an atheist. I also help moderate The Straight Dope message boards. I frequently wish to post an article that I read in the Inquirer, however, I know that I would violate copyright laws.
So, I'm just calling the site to your attention. I won't get any money for it, I'll just get the satisfaction of seeing creationists humiliated if you decide to participate on the message boards. I advise reading the columns and FAQ first. I really think that you'll enjoy the site, if you have time for it. http://www.straightdope.com/
No, of course you don't pay anything. You will have to register to post, but we don't share email lists. The prime reason we require registration is to weed out jerks. Lynn via InternetResponse: No jerks? Can an exception be made for me? G.D.
LISH QUESTION OF THE MONTH: What well-known persons or celebrities are, in your opinion, possibly "closet" secular humanists, freethinkers, and/or atheists or agnostics, and what makes you think so?
3/11/00 Christopher Reeve--his book; Steve Allen--his writings (but I am none too happy with his being poster boy for Parents' Television Council--makes me think his name is for sale.) Humanist via the Internet
Response: Christopher Reeves is a very likely and admirable suspect, but Mr. Allen is hardly in the closet! G.D
3/11/00 Paul Newman, Warren Beatty, Jody Foster, Robert Redford, Phil Jackson, Lynn Redgrave, Leonard Nimoy, Jack Lemmon. Th via Internet
Response: Great list and plausible too. Just wondering if any readers consider Steve Martin a likely humanist suspect? G.D. [TOC]
A Memorial in Alabama Keith T
Once their vice president said they couldn't be citizens. The constitutions of seven states; Arkansas, Maryland, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas; forbid their holding office. Indeed in Arkansas, the constitution forbids them from testifying in court. Most folks believe they cannot exist when they become frightened. They are the atheists.It's pretty hard to go somewhere in this country without seeing a memorial to our country's veterans. It's about as hard to find one that doesn't include a religious sentiment somewhere in the dedication or the design. Even the tomb of the Unknown Soldier is inscribed "Here Rests In Honored Glory An American Soldier Known But To God." In San Diego, visitors coming from the north are greeted by a memorial to veterans in the shape of a huge cross.
A monument to veterans also greets visitors to Ferne Park, way back in the woods, deep in the heart of Alabama. This one doesn't dominate any skyline. To get to it take it you take Thomas Paine Parkway alongside Cady Creek to Hypatia Lake. No doubt they were the only things in Alabama named for those three. Thomas Paine was the famous American revolutionary who was called a "dirty little atheist" by no less than Teddy Roosevelt. Elizabeth Cady Stanton was a leading 19th century suffragette whose criticism of religion still rankles believers today. Hypatia was the librarian at Alexandria, Egypt around 400 A.D. She was literally skinned alive because of the library's collection of manuscripts containing heretical ideas. Tis said some of the manuscripts suggested the world was round.
The monument in Alabama is different. It is the only one in the entire world dedicated to "Atheists in Foxholes," probably the only military memorial even dedicated to atheists at all. And, it is right in the middle of the state that got all sorts of publicity when Governor Fob James and Judge Roy Moore insisted the U S Constitution didn't apply to them. Indeed the governor stated he would call out the Alabama National Guard to protect a copy of the Ten Commandments hanging in the judge's courtroom.
Roger and Pat Cleveland and Roger's sister, Melody Cleveland donated the park to the Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF), on July 4, 1991. This little corner of non-belief is intended to be a retreat for members, but visitors are welcome.
You won't hear much about it. The New York Times Magazine ran a piece on it in December of 1998. That was about it.
The monument is a four-sided obelisk honoring all branches of our armed forces plus the merchant marine. It's about six feet high. An anonymous atheist/veteran funded it and it was dedicated on July 4, 1999. Veterans who have little or no hope of eternity themselves can still have their memories live on after them. The park maintains a book for those who want to have their biographies and pictures included. Interested folks should call (256) 362 8729 or send an email to abutler@alfreethought.org.
But isn't "atheists in foxholes" an oxymoron? Surely anybody facing an immediate trip to that "great beyond" would copper on his bet and call on God at the last minute. That idea has been the theme of countless sermons so long it is accepted as a national ethos.
Well, I dunno. I never stepped foot in a foxhole. Indeed I never experienced the terror of an enemy trying to kill me. Still, death is death, and I came within a whisker of it a couple times. In both cases I had but two thoughts. "Would I be able to avoid that oncoming car? Why in the hell didn't I fasten my seat belt?"
According to Anne Gayler, FFRF president, stories such as mine are very common. Certainly there have been well-recorded deaths of discerning, intelligent people who eschewed the idea of the last minute conversions.
Isaac Asimov was as discerning and intelligent as they come. Yet Asimov had no belief in God. According to his wife, Janet, his last words were, "I am Isaac Asimov." Not awfully inspiring, but our most prolific author and one of the most intelligent men of our time died without recanting.
And what about Carl Sagan, the man who introduced so many of us to the wonders of the universe? According to Ann Druyan, his wife "Carl didn't want to believe. He wanted to know." He did not recant.
But they were not soldiers in foxholes. What about one who was? One of the most outspoken would be Ken Dunn, now well into his "golden years. Ken is 77 years old, and hasn't been a believer since age 10. Ken joined the Marines in 1940 and fought at Guadalcanal, our first offensive in the Pacific. Later he went ashore and fought the entire campaign at Tarawa. Dunn remained an atheist in lots of foxholes, and he did it through some of the bloodiest fighting of World War II. The memorial at Lake Hypatia is for the likes of him.
____________ Humanist Music Competition The New Jersey Humanist Network (NJHN) is sponsoring a Music Competition to encourage the creation of new secular humanist works. Information can be found at http://www.freespeech.org/njhn/music.htm. For more info, feel free to contact New Jersey Humanist Network, PO Box 51, Washington, NJ 07882 or email: hbrown@nac.net or call H. Brown: 908-689-2813. [TOC]
Is Pat Robertson an Evil Influence? Gerry D
It possibly cost John McCain the nomination or at least any chance of gaining it. Incensed over Pat Robertson's organization referring to McCain's campaign manager, Warren Rudman, who just happened to be Jewish, as a "vicious bigot," he called Robertson and Falwell "agents of intolerance" and called Robertson an "evil influence" on the Republican Party. Was this an overreaction or was this a rare political measure of honesty and accuracy?Is Robertson an agent of intolerance? This is rather easy to answer: Of course! What is the evidence? His own words, what else? Here are some of his most famous statements:
"When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" - from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," page 218
"The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening." - Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, Dec. 30, 1981
"It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into (our) institutions (today) are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation." - Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986
"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them." - Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, January 14, 1991
"Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history." - Pat Robertson, 1993 interview with Molly Ivins
(Talking about apartheid South Africa) "I think 'one man, one vote,' just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights." - Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, 3/18/92
"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." - Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992
(Talking about Planned Parenthood) "It is teaching kids to fornicate, teaching people to have adultery, every kind of bestiality, homosexuality, lesbianism-everything that the Bible condemns." - Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, 4/9/91
"I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period." - Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, 1/8/92
"You see what happened in 1962. They took prayer out of the schools. The next year the Supreme Court ordered Bible reading taken from the schools. And then progressing, liberals, most of them atheistic educators, have pushed to remove all religion from the lives of children...The people who wrote the "Humanist Manifesto" and their pupils and their disciples are in charge of education in America today." - Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, January 13, 1995
"How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy money changers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?" - Pat Robertson, "The New World Order," p.227
"Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals--the two things seem to go together." - Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, 1/21/93
(For more on Mr. Robertson one can go to http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7027/patrobertson.html) [TOC]
Churches or Business Gerry D
What happens when a community development board, seeking to upgrade services in a specific area, has to choose between a church and business? New Cassel, a Nassau County, Long Island community is trying to figure that out right now.In a 22-block stretch of Prospect Avenue there are estimated by the development agency to be 20 churches, some illegally operating, and contributing little or nothing to property values and nothing to town tax rolls, due to their exemption. The North Hempstead Community Development Agency seeks to force one specific congregation to sell its property for a planned church building for needed commercial development.
Even if it is conceded that commercial development is needed, and that the churches are blighting the neighborhood, should the government step in and condemn such a property? Truly, condemnation should be a last resort - however, keep in mind that churches enjoy a tax exemption that atheistic or secular organizations do not share. This is the underlying problem, not the abundance of churches in this area.
No religious or non-religious organization should have a tax advantage that the other does not enjoy. If it were not for this, there would indeed be fewer churches on Prospect Avenue, and those that were open would be paying their real estate taxes like all other non-profit organizations.
Still, condemning a church because it is a church and because there are already too many churches in the area is a poor reason. Since justice in the area of real estate taxation is not on the horizon, ultimately the burden must be on the municipality to prove that this condemnation is necessary. Has this taken place? [TOC]
Bob Jones University: The Fine Print Gerry D
The announcement was indeed dramatic - Bob Jones III picked the Larry King show to announce the ending of the ban on interracial dating at his university. What he failed to say on the TV show was that written permission from the parents was now necessary for such couples to date! What are the chances that such permission would be forthcoming?The Bob Jones U. style of thinking is indeed fascinating, however. Consider the following quote, according to the NY Post, from a BJU trained preacher: "Your feelings mean nothing! The devil is a feelings-oriented person!" And of course, the message is apparently getting through to the students as one claimed: "I am Dorian Gray. I am depraved...." Far be it from us to argue with them! [TOC]
Kentucky Governor Vetoes Act to Allow Discrimination Against Atheists From Americans United for Separation of Church & State
(Last month the Inquirer reported on the passage of a bill in Kentucky to allow churches to discriminate against non-believers in public accommodations. The original impetus of the law was the leasing of campgrounds owned by a Baptist group by the humanist sponsored "Camp Quest." The following is a report from Americans United.)
March 8, Governor Paul Patton vetoed HB70, which sought to amend the Kentucky Civil Rights Act to allow religious organizations and their activities and facilities to discriminate in the provision of public accommodations.
This veto is a MAJOR VICTORY for all of us who fight for civil rights and civil liberties. The veto was made possible by YOUR calls and letters to Frankfort. THANK YOU!
In his "Veto Message, " Governor Patton said the bill "would permit [religious] organizations to operate public accommodations, as defined by the Civil Rights Act, while refusing service based on the religion of the person seeking use of the organization's facility." He noted that civil rights laws "do not require a religious organization to open its facilities to the general public but they do require that if a religious organization opens its facilities to the General public, they must obey the same laws that non-religious entities are required to obey. House Bill 70 compromises this important purpose and violates both the spirit and meaning of the Kentucky Civil Rights Act by permitting discrimination on the basis of religion, the free exercise and non-establishment of which were among the fundamental principles in the founding of our state and country."
HB70 will be sent back to the Senate to consider overriding the Governor's veto. We will inform you as the time nears for the Senate to consider a possible override.
Please call the Governor's Office to thank him for his veto: 502-564-2867. (From Ann Mulligan, States Legislative Coordinator, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, 518 C Street, NE, Washington, DC 20002, 202-466-3234 x 232 - phone, 202-466-2587 - fax, mulligan@au.org, www.au.org.) [TOC]
Book Discussion Club Forming!
For all LISH members and others who can read, LISH Vice-President Bill Wade has volunteered to form a book discussion club! Meetings could take place at member homes, Public Libraries or Borders or other local bookstores, depending on the logistics. If you are interested call Bill Wade @ 631 765 2941 or write to him @ Box 631, Southold, NY, 11971.Humanist Perspective
Be Sure to Watch "Humanist Perspective" on Cablevision Public Access on (*new*!) channel 71 on the Woodbury system every Wednesday @ 5:30 PM and starting April 15, every Saturday @ 3:00PM, channel 25 on the Hauppauge system! [TOC]